The Dark Territory
A deep dive into unsettling, obscure, and often overlooked works in film, literature, and music. From body horror to haunted Americana, industrial noise to dystopian novels — it's about exploring the media that lingers in the shadows.
The Dark Territory
Enter The Eraserhead
Welcome to the debut episode of The Dark Territory Podcast, where hosts Shawn and Brandon explore the films, music, and books that dwell in the strange, the eerie, and the unforgettable.
For our very first journey, we dive into David Lynch’s 1977 cult classic Eraserhead—a surreal nightmare that continues to haunt audiences nearly fifty years after its release. Often described as one of the most disturbing and influential debuts in cinema history, Lynch’s film takes us into the fractured psyche of Henry Spencer, a lonely man confronted with an industrial wasteland, an unsettling romance, and a newborn child like no other.
In this episode, we break down the film’s most haunting moments and discuss what makes Eraserhead such a powerful entry point into Lynch’s world of uncanny horror and dream logic. From its bleak industrial soundscapes to its unforgettable creature design, we explore how Lynch created a work that is as much about mood and texture as it is about narrative.
Shawn and Brandon also reflect on how the film shaped their own love for the darker side of cinema and why it remains essential viewing for fans of experimental horror. Whether you’ve seen Eraserhead a dozen times or you’re new to its nightmarish world, this episode will guide you through the shadows, the symbolism, and the strange beauty of Lynch’s masterpiece.
Please don't do that. Please don't do that. Yeah. I'll stop right now.
SPEAKER_00:All right. Welcome to the Dark Territory Podcast. I'm Sean. I'm Brandon. Each week we dive into the films, music, and books that fueled our passion for everything dark, mysterious, and strange. Today's episode we'll be discussing David Lynch's feature debut, Eraserhead. Industrial Wasteland, getting babies. There's a lot to unpack. But before we do, let's talk about our first encounter with Eraserhead. Brandon?
SPEAKER_01:Well, when I was about 14 or 15, I started really getting into the idea of midnight movies and studying film. I started hanging out with this guy at my school who he was getting into movies as well as I was. And we devoured all these movie magazines like Film Threat and Film Facts, Fangoria, all this stuff. And um Psychotronic Encyclopedia film. We bought that. And the one thing that stood out, we kept hearing about this movie Eraserhead. And we're like, Well, what is up with that? What is this movie? And my high school guidance counselor, he was really in the movies as well. And he was a big Lynch fan, rest in peace. And he told me about how he watched Eraserhead and it just blew his mind. And that, you know, it was like a fire in my brain. I wanted this, it was all-encompassing, and I wanted to see this movie so fucking bad. I I couldn't handle it, right? So there was this video store in Lakewood that had a copy of it, and so I called him up. Yeah, we had to call and find out about movies. We had to ask, it's like, hey, do you have this movie? We didn't have the internet back then. Right. So I found out that this place had a racerhead. So my grandmother drove me to this store and I got a membership just to get a racerhead. And I took it home and I instantly put it into the VCR and watched it, and it was mind-altering, to say the very least. Right, right, right. And I stepped away with this movie with an almost profound awe of David Lynch.
SPEAKER_00:Did you have anything that you could even compare it to when you watched it?
SPEAKER_01:No. I don't think there is a way that you could compare it to any other film.
SPEAKER_00:When I first saw it, I was uh again, we didn't have the internet back in the day, so I was looking around everywhere I could to find it, and turns out there was a place in Tacoma called Stadium Video. Awesome store. Yes, yeah, rest in peace. Rest in peace, yes.
SPEAKER_01:They got ripped off too much.
SPEAKER_00:Unfortunately, that that did happen.
SPEAKER_01:I think I stole a fucking video from them too.
SPEAKER_00:You sick bastard. You're going to hell.
SPEAKER_01:I think I stole hated from them.
SPEAKER_00:Oh wow. I don't think I stole anything from them, but I only had two rentals. I think it was a Racerhead and Blue Velvet was probably the only other one that I got from them. But yeah, they they wanted your uh voter registration, they wanted uh where you live, you know, probably your social security number even. They want they wanted everything so that they knew that you're coming back. But yeah, when I watched it, it was late at night. My girlfriend was complaining that I was too loud and she'd already gone to bed. Um you know, but there was always something about Lynch's films that that drew that draws you in immediately uh and makes you want to just you know stay with it even if you don't understand it. So when Eraser begins, we see Henry superimposed over a strange planet. Uh David Lynch uses sound here as he draws you in his world. Uh as we go deeper into the strange planet, we're introduced to a character played by David Lynch's longtime production designer, Jack Fisk. So, what are your thoughts on this scene? Like, do you think Henry and Jack Fisk's character are connected somehow? Yeah, I think his character is Henry's subconscious.
SPEAKER_01:And the machinations of what's going on in Henry's brain and what is going to transpire in this movie. It's all related and it's all relative. Lynch didn't do anything. He's like Kubrick. Every single scene had a purpose. And with the opening scene, I think it's it's an example of you know birth and destruction at the same time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I like the uh the use of the makeup and the way he looks, you know, and the way he's lit. He has this very ominous and and very kind of disturbing, uh almost like threatening look. And then he when he's pulling the gears, you know, and they do those close-ups. Um I just I love how like again, I'm I I've always liked Lynch's the look of his films, but also the sound as well, uh, that accompanies all of the things that's happening on screen.
SPEAKER_01:That film sounds like no other.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, and nothing can ever come close. Next, we uh we're introduced for the first time to Henry, uh yeah, with a nice close-up shot of his face and that hair, uh, which is you know unmistakable. Uh it's iconic. He always looks like he has a problem, like something is going on with him. With a furled brow, yeah, he he just looks like the world is just sitting on his shoulders. Like he can't escape any one problem in his life.
SPEAKER_01:Like he has a girlfriend that's about to drop a major bomb on him.
SPEAKER_00:And yeah, it's it's funny you say spoiler alert. Uh do you do you think that Lynch had uh had already formed some of the symbolisms uh and the meanings in in his mind, like through his intuition, or do you think that uh he he expanded on them uh on purpose later on in his films? Because there's things like in the the apartment lobby, you know, we have the jagged pattern of the floor, which we also see in Twin Peaks Firewalk with me in the Black Lodge. Uh there's also the scene where uh Henry's going up the elevator and the lights flicker, which is another Lynchian trope, usually a sign that something ominous is happening or about to happen. Like, do you do you think that these things were were in already made up in his mind that it that these are symbols, or do you think he's just developed them throughout his later films?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think Lynch was always in interested in symbology, but the fact that he uses these images over and over again, I don't think it's happenstance, I don't think it's an accident. Yeah. I think it's just something in his mind that was so important, you know. It could have been from his childhood, it could have been, you know, from an experience he had as an adult. I think that with all the information about Eraserhead available, his time in Philadelphia was a very, very impactful event in his life, not only for the birth of his daughter and meeting his wife Peggy, but the fact that it was such a violent, ugly place. You're gonna have to process traumas when you live in a place like that. And I think Lynch had a real problem with that throughout the rest of his life.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because sometimes you look at pictures of Lynch and watch interviews with him, and there's something going on behind those eyes that it's like, what happened with this guy? You know, yeah. You cannot have films like that and have it, you know, not be scarred somehow. Yeah, oh absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Look at the character of Frank Booth. Right. The interesting thing about Lynch, though, to that point is that he doesn't he he has a lot of darkness in his films, but there's this kind of coziness with it, you know, the Americana, the way that he kind of portrays the the goodness and the darkness. That it's obvious that there's a a particular joy he takes in creating these things. I think it's a catharsis, uh not just for him, but also the viewer. Um and I think that's unique to to Lynch, where you know he blends a lot of the weirdness and the darkness together in a way that's also strangely comforting in a way that I don't think I I've experienced in any other films. Alright, so Spencer has a brief encounter with his mysterious neighbor, who apparently has no problem with answering other people's phone calls in the lobby and then relaying the message. Uh she seems almost not real in the way that she's portrayed, almost like a ghost or a fantasy uh in his mind. What do you think? Do you think uh she's real or some sort of symbol or Henry's fantasy?
SPEAKER_01:Well, with the phone thing, the they probably live in a hotel. So the only reason to the only way that you can get a phone call is through through the payphone in the lobby. So that answers that question. Okay, you think it's a flop house? Oh yeah, totally sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I thought maybe he's a squatter. Like maybe maybe he's squatting there, and then the woman is like some sort of uh imaginary uh entity, and and he's just sort of making it all up in his mind.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's a possibility too. She could be a manifestation of Henry's shadow self in Jungian Par Lands. Um we're getting deep now. Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna take you there. I think she's a manifestation of his dark side, yeah, his animal side and his lust.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, definitely. Especially uh given the fact that he is well, he doesn't know it yet, but she takes on more of an importance in that role after he finds out, spoiler alert, that he's gonna become a father and all the complicated feelings that that brings.
SPEAKER_01:Uh technically he's a father. Right. Because technically he has a child, but that's the hospital they think is a child, they think it's a baby. Yeah. And by the way, if you have not seen this movie, stop right now because there will be spoilers. This is not a spoiler-free podcast. We're probably gonna spoil every single movie we ever talk about. Yes, so it's on you, but it is streaming on most major platforms.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so now we're in Henry's apartment. He puts on a record uh of what is apparently, and I had to look this up, Fats Waller's Lennox Avenue Blues, and then sits on his bed while he stares at his water heater and a dirty floor. Uh also he his view, it's amazing. Uh, it apparently it's just a brick wall uh that he gets to look out at. Um, and his interior decorating, uh, also amazing. He has a dead plant, uh, a small frame picture of an atomic bomb explosion. I always thought that was odd. Right, right. Uh David Lynch he likes the the atomic bombs though. He he's used that in a few other things. Uh Twin Peaks, the return. He had a big ass fucking thing uh behind coal. Uh I think that was on episode seven, right before the infamous. I don't think you've seen the return yet, have you? No. Okay, I'm not gonna spoil anything for you, but it's uh it's definitely worth watch. Do you think Henry's a squatter? He says he's employed. No, he's on vacation. Well, yeah, right. He says he's employed, and his wife, uh Mary X, says that he's on vacation. Yeah. Very suspect.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. He meets his future in-laws and he says, Oh, I'm on vacation now.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, that seems code for unemployed. And Mrs. X is like, Well, what did you do? Yeah, Mrs. X. She's a piece of work. All right, well, speaking of Mrs. uh Mrs. X or Mary X, uh, we get to meet her and her fucked up family. Uh, they live on the other side of town, and um apparently in this world there's a lot of just loose dogs around because we hear dogs barking on the way. Again, that's another Lynchian trope, I think. Uh foreshadow of uh bad things to come. Uh so Henry makes it over for dinner, and right off the bat, Mary and Henry are having trouble. They they talk weird to each other, there's a lot of weird, awkward pauses. He definitely acts like he doesn't want to be there. Yeah, and she seems uh either ambivalent or not sure if she wants him there either. He sits about 16 feet away from her on the couch. As one should. Yeah. Uh she looks, yeah, terrifying. Uh speaking of terrifying, the mom. We have to talk about the mother. She uh is sitting in a chair next to a uh litter of puppies suckling on their mother very loudly, I might add, probably louder than anything I've ever heard in my life. Uh it's very disturbing and and and strange. What do you think of the introduction of the mom? Do you think that she's sort of this uh dominant force in the family that's that's the impression I got too. Um I guess uh the next question is do you think that uh Mary and Henry should be having a kid together? Do you think they're being responsible adults by having a kid?
SPEAKER_01:I don't think anybody in that universe should be having children. Tell me more. Any offspring that is born in the eraserhead universe probably will have deformities because of all the industrial chemicals in the air.
SPEAKER_00:Um that's a good point. It it it's this sort of bleak industrial town that looks like there's probably cancer in the air. Oh, most definitely. Which it probably explains, again, spoiler, uh, the deformity that is their baby. Um there's oil slicks all over the ground, there's smokestacks. There's strange mounds very uniformly that he that Henry likes to walk over. Uh apparently not of not even bothering to avoid. He actually seems to enjoy it. Uh walking over these amounts of dirt.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he sees them in the distance and he makes a beeline straight for him. Right. Yoink? Uh I gotta go check that out. Yeah, it's like, what what are these?
SPEAKER_00:Alright, so we meet the mom. Uh it's it's classic Lynch uh dialogue, you know, just very strange and choppy. What do you think about the family dynamics? Do you think that like the the father, obviously, we can talk about him a little bit more, but um, you know, the mom obviously runs the show.
SPEAKER_01:I think everybody is grooving on their own vibes in a racerhead. Everybody has their own motives, they're on their own frequency, or they just don't even know what the fuck is going on. Um everyone has this look of existential dread on their face. Yeah. And the father, Bill, Bill X, he just, you know, he probably just goes to work so he can escape his awful, awful home life. There seems to be a lot, a lot going on with Bill. Yeah, he put up every damn pipe in that neighborhood.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. God bless him. Yeah. Uh anything else you want to talk about with Bill? I mean, he seemed to uh go from being polite to uh irate in about two seconds. Um, and and the dog's barking again, Lynch, it's kind of telling you that something's not right.
SPEAKER_01:Well, there's an interesting scene in the dinner scene where Mary's mom has kind of a nervous breakdown and she runs into the other room, and then Mary follows her, and Bill and Henry are just they're stuck sitting there. So Bill just casually looks over at Henry and says, Hey Henry, what do you know? You know, it's yeah in any other example, any other interaction with a person, you know, you you're meeting your future father-in-law, you're meeting your girlfriend's parents for the first time, yeah, it's gonna be awkward. Yeah. But in this instance, it is ex just just over the top, the way he's looking at Henry, you know, and he gets this big freaky grin on his face, and Henry's just like looking like, God, I want to be anywhere but this place right now.
SPEAKER_00:I don't blame him. Oh man. I I would want to run as far away from that house as possible. There's it's possessed. There's definitely something going on. I wonder where the rich people live. There is no rich people. At all. No. Well, what about the the businessman that owns the pencil factory? He he looks like he's got a pen pinstripe uh suit. So clearly he's making some money. I mean, everybody else is dressed in rags. Even Henry's suit looks like it's bought at Sears in like the 1950s. Like or a thrift store. Or a thrift store. Let's talk about the dinner. The dinner scene is I think when I first watched it, it was the first time that I felt like I'm in over my head a little bit. Like I have no idea what's going on. The chickens are terrifying and and disturbing. Um, but also the way that people are interacting uh with each other, with the chickens. Um in particular the mom, as as Henry is cutting the chickens.
SPEAKER_01:She starts reaching for one, she's staring at it like it's an alien. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You notice that? Like it's irresistible. Yeah. But she and it's ever so subtle. And if you if you weren't looking, you wouldn't have seen it.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. It's one of the big mysteries of this movie because I I don't know exactly what it means when when she's salivating and and almost acting in a in a very erotic way as Henry is cutting open these little tiny chickens. Again, watch this film if you haven't already. The the tiny chickens are something to behold. They're their legs start moving, and then blood is coming out of between the legs, which again seems very suggestive and strange. Um Bill says, there's the strangest damn things, smaller than my fist. Yes, and man-made, I believe he said. Yeah, they're man-made chickens. So what do you think? Do you think that there's any uh what do you what do you think that David was trying to say about uh the connection between the chickens and Henry cutting them and the mother? There's there definitely seems to be something happening where all these things are are coming together.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think that like I said earlier, there are no coincidences in Lynch's films. Yes. And if you if you look deeper into it, this whole film is a metaphor for childbirth and blood and sacrifice, right? The chickens could be a sacrifice, they could be a sacrifice to motherhood, they could be a sacrifice to fatherhood, they could be a sacrifice to a child, anything, it's it's what you make of it.
SPEAKER_00:So the the mom she's salivating, and then she she starts crying out and running out of the room, very disturbed, uh, and the the daughter goes after her. And this is uh a chance for for the dad, Bill, and Henry to get to know each other. Uh unfortunately, it it just turns out to be a lot of awkward silence.
SPEAKER_01:And uh and Bill looking like a psycho.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Bill basically it looked like he just sort of short circuits after a minute and and has this weird smile on his face.
SPEAKER_01:I'm telling you, man, that dinner that dinner scene makes the dinner scene in Texas Chainsaw Massacre look normal. I'm telling you, man. Wait, when did when did when did uh Texas Chainsaw come out? 1974. I'm sure Lynch probably watched it and probably took a few ideas from it. Even some of the angles are the same.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, Texas Chainsaw, as far as like fucked up families and films go, that's like pretty much the most iconic.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we'll be covering that someday too. Absolutely. Yes, sir. Maybe for a Halloween episode.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Guys, let uh let us know what you think in the comments. So mom comes back, uh, says that she wants to talk to Henry for a minute in the other room. That was great. Yeah. Uh very very strange and and uh concerning. No shit. Um the the the transition in between uh him going to the other room, I thought was very interesting because there's this tonal shift. And this is where I see that for the first time in a Lynch film in this sort of way where it's almost like time slows down. He looks Henry looks at the the lamp and you get this weird sound that comes with it as the light gets bright and then it goes to dark. I I love I love how Lynch uses this kind of atmosphere and sound and and kind of slowing things down for a moment to kind of let you know that like something's coming, like something's happening. Um and then we get the mom uh asking really inappropriate questions, and uh basically you know is it really though? I mean, it's pertinent. Sure. I mean, it wouldn't it wouldn't be inappropriate if she didn't immediately start trying to neck with him after asking him. So what do you think? Do you think uh this is some sort of Freudian thing with the the mom?
SPEAKER_01:Probably a little bit of everything.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Knowing Lynch. There's definitely Oedipus complex going on, maybe a little bit. We know nothing of Henry's parents.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, that's true. We we're only meeting Mary's parents. We'd never hear anything about Henry's.
SPEAKER_01:We don't know where Henry's from. Was he abused as a child? Was he beaten up by his mom? We don't we know nothing of where he comes from.
SPEAKER_00:He definitely looks beat down. Oh like I I could definitely see some abuse or neglect happening in in Henry's childhood that that is sort of uh given him the trajectory of his life.
SPEAKER_01:You can't have a look on your face like that and not have some sort of internal trauma. No. Or something going on.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Uh so now that the daughter has successfully shut down the mom from necking with her boyfriend, uh, the mother blurts out that there's a baby, or at least they think it's a baby, and that Henry is the father. Um, it's after Henry receives this knowledge that he has a nosebleed. This is another Lynchian trope. This is something that's happened in his other films where a character is met with some disturbing knowledge, or his some sort of sudden realization, and their nose starts bleeding as if they're almost like having a hemorrhage in their brain because of the information and how disturbing it is. Um, do you think there's any significance to the fact that Henry has no knowledge of the baby and seems surprised that he's the father? What do you think?
SPEAKER_01:Well, he could definitely be stressed. Nosebleeds are known to be caused by stress. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, and that's when I found out that my ex was pregnant, that freaked me out. You had a nosebleed as well. I didn't have a nosebleed, but I felt like I was having a brain hemorrhage.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. When I first found out it, I was also very, very, very surprised. Um, and we can cut all this out if we want to.
SPEAKER_01:No, that's all right. I like talking about being a dad. And that, you know, it it it is very relevant to this film. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I don't care what anybody says, this film is one giant metaphor for fatherhood.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and and how uh anxiety-inducing and scary it is to all of a sudden have uh be thrust into you know, you you're now responsible for another living.
SPEAKER_01:Especially at a young age. Yes. We don't we have no idea of how old Henry is. I'm sure he's in his late 20s, early 30s.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. He looks he looks old already, but they let they look young enough that they're probably in that age range. Mary looks to be about 25, 30. We never see them interacting in that way that would suggest that that they're even sexually active. No, like they they look like they just met each other off the street. They look like they hate each other. Yeah. Mary doesn't look like she wants anything to do with him. Henry looks like he'd rather be anywhere but there. Yeah, he looks almost kind of confused. I don't think he has any agency in his life, you know. He seems very inept at just the act of living in general. So like an incel? Yeah, shut in for sure. Yeah, if this was the internet age, I would hate to see what Henry would uh would have become.
SPEAKER_01:Probably he'd be a well-adjusted individual on the internet. Oh uh he'd be a moderator for 4chan. Uh he looks like it.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, yeah, yeah, you're not wrong. I mean, he is kind of like that stereotypical male shut-in. He'd definitely have a neck beard, though. You think he'd have a neck beard? Oh, yeah. So instead of a racer head, he'd be a racer beard.
SPEAKER_01:No, he would just he'd have the hair. Yeah. But he'd also have a neckbeard.
SPEAKER_00:Just a beard tube. Like a dwarf beard. Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, uh, regardless of what Henry may or may not be, uh, he is now a father. For better or worse. Yeah, for better or for worse. And uh that's when we hard cut to the baby. We don't know what it's what it is, what it's made of.
SPEAKER_01:The dead Kennedys even talked about that baby in the song Too Drunk to Fuck. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:This is one of those best kept secrets where it's almost to the realm of an urban legend in Hollywood. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Lynch took it to his grave, you know, rest in peace. He uh he was able to keep keep the specific knowledge of what that thing was made of and how it worked to his grave. And I think there's probably only a handful of people that actually know exactly what it is and what it what it was and what it what it was made of.
SPEAKER_01:Well, there's only two two directions you can go with it. It was either a prosthetic, that was an extremely well made at the time, yeah. Or it was something dead.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I I I'm on the fence. I I think it it could be a combination of of both. Or pieces of things, yeah. The head could be uh the head could have been a prosthetic. Yeah. Linz Lynch is not shy from using uh organic material in his paintings, and I think he could very easily have uh you know found a way to get a hold of some something organic.
SPEAKER_01:Very unsettling effect to me was the eyes. Yes. There's a scene where later in the film, when the lights are out, yes, Henry turns the lights off to go to bed, but the baby is awake. Yeah, and it it seems like it never sleeps. The fucking thing all it does is all it does is cry. Or laughing at you, yeah, which in and of itself was disturbing.
SPEAKER_00:Disturbing, yes.
SPEAKER_01:But the super imposition of the eye rolling back and forth, watching, yes, and that's an extreme close-up, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and the glossiness it looked real, it looked like a real fucking eye. Yeah, yeah. Uh that they put a wire under so they can move it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I would love, God, I wish there was some footage of like the behind the scenes of a razor head where you could see like the puppeteers or whoever was doing that thing, like making it move. There was there was even some suggestion, like some uh some people thought that based off of how the eyes moved in some of the scenes, that maybe Lynch used some sort of stop motion to do it. But I don't think I didn't detect any sort of stop motion, you know, distortions. It's very fluid.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because there is stop motion in eraser head with the worm. There's a little worm that does a little weird dance, right? And then it stops at the top of the plant in Henry's room, yeah, which is just like a basically a dead tree. Right. And it has a little the mouth opens up, and that's obviously claymation. Yeah. So nah, the the baby moved too fluidly to be stop motion, so it was definitely a puppet. But the fact of the matter is, is that the production of this film took over five years.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:So if it was something organic, he would have to have kept it in either formaldehyde or it was numerous things that were the same. And that in of itself is disturbing. He's got a freezer full of just uh extra babies. Of dead baby Admiral Akbars, you know? Yeah. Because it looks like Admiral Akbar from Return of the Jedi. Right. A baby version of him.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. Until it gets uh blotchy and and bloated and sick and and yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Again, that's right. And it's funny that the baby is so deformed because and and his daughter would uh beg to differ, but David Lynch's daughter was born with club feet. I didn't know that. Yeah. Kelly Lynch was born, yeah, which she has her feet are fine now, but she always vehemently said, Oh, it's not about fatherhood.
SPEAKER_00:It's like it yes, it is. Yeah, there's no way it couldn't be. Yes. There are some things that are just on a on a intuitive level that any father watches that and and immediately knows what he's talking about.
SPEAKER_01:And every father has had, you know, a fear of, you know, before their child's born, is he gonna be okay? Is she gonna be fucked up? Is she you know, are they gonna be uh neurodivergent? Yeah, you know, those are those are perfectly mammalian reflexes and thoughts that go through a person's head. Now, to have a child that's born with a you know a problem, deficiency, whatever, yeah it's gotta it's gotta affect you somehow.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, absolutely. So after we see Mary struggle to feed the baby, Henry is seen going down to the lobby where he finds a small box in his mail. On one of his walks, he opens the box to reveal what looks like some kind of small worm. What do you think? What do you think this uh worm signifies?
SPEAKER_01:Actually, no, I never put too much thought into the worm. I just thought it was something weird that Lynch put in. It's like, oh, this is gonna be cool, let's do this. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, you have to take Lynch for what he is. You know, he was an artist.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But the worm comes up a couple times, and there's even that little uh stop animation that it that is just the worm. I mean, we see the worms in in in uh you know other parts of the movie, but in this particular case, the only reason why I I was kind of drawn to it is because he he treats it like it's some sort of shameful secret.
SPEAKER_01:Maybe somebody just mailed it to him to feed his kid to make it shut up.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe they knew that like oh this will fix it.
SPEAKER_01:I'm your downstairs neighbor, shut that kid up here, feed it this.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know. That place seems like it's full of a lot of weirdos. Maybe it's just some random dude off the street that thought it'd be funny to to fuck with him, so he's gonna just mail him a bunch of little little worms. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Maybe it was the man and the man and the planet that sent him some sent it as an idea, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:As a germ a worm, a worm comes out of his mouth in the beginning. So yeah, and that was that seemed to be happening from the man from another planet. Yeah, maybe there's a lot of spermatozoa imagery in this film. Yes, yeah, that's true. That's true. It could just be reinforcing that, you know.
SPEAKER_01:It's like we all come from a worm. Yes, we go back to the worms, right?
SPEAKER_00:Life and death, all that stuff.
SPEAKER_01:It's all creation and destruction. Yep, yep. Which plays into so many different cosmologies. Every religion in the world has you know, and I don't think I don't think that Lynch personally had religion. I know he he was into transcendental meditation and he was into Eastern philosophy. So I'm sure he was a religious person, but I think he was he was touching on the creation and destruction myth of probably every major religion and society and this on this planet. Yeah. Yeah. It's universal.
SPEAKER_00:This part's interesting because this is the first time we see Henry kind of fixate on the radiator, and it's almost like he's going into this trance, like he's kind of daydreaming, or uh he like he wants to escape mentally from kind of his surroundings. Um I think we do get to see the stage. It's empty but hidden behind the radiator. What do you what do you think about the stage? Do you think it represents anything, or do you think there's a uh is it's a symptom of his uh his unraveling?
SPEAKER_01:No, I don't think he's unraveling at this point. I just think it's a manifestation of his dream world, where he wants to be as opposed to where he's at.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Everybody has one. Sure. We all have a dream hit or a stage hidden behind a radiator somewhere. Sure. Yeah. So it's nighttime, the baby won't shut up. Uh Mary loses it uh and yells at the kid. Uh, then she announces she's leaving, and this is after I think one day of being a mom. She can't take it anymore. Uh since Henry is on quote unquote vacation, uh, Mary says that he can look after the baby now. Uh she yells, I can do whatever I want to do. You know, she's she's just gonna take off, and uh she reaches for her suitcase under the bed and comically yanks at it for what seems like you know, a good five minutes before finally getting it uh uh loose. And that's the last we see of her for a while.
SPEAKER_01:And Lynch told her when they were filming that scene to not stop and keep going. Yeah, he didn't give her a he didn't tell Charlotte Stewart to he didn't give her a specific time just to keep yanking with that beleaguered look on her face. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Which which is very strange and disturbing because her her face is framed to be between the bars of the the foot of the bed, and the look on her face is is both sort of pathetic and and upset. And I think the first time I watched it, I wasn't even sure what was happening because they don't you don't see her hand, you don't know what she's doing. All you see is the bed moving and her face, and you're like, what is going on? And then it's only until you know she she finally gets the suitcase free that you're like, Oh, she just really wanted her suitcase. Um, so now Henry is a single dad, and um, there's a really interesting scene where he checks on the baby with a thermometer, and we don't see any signs of the baby being sick, so it's odd that he thinks that he needs to go check the baby's temperature. Um do you think that there's any any significance to this? Like uh it's almost like a Munchausen syndrome thing where where he's projecting his own anxieties and and angst onto the child, and it's not until he checks to see if the baby's sick that the baby actually does become sick. He probably wants it to be sick. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Probably wants the fucking thing dead.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I would he wants to escape his circumstance because he's not ready to be a dad.
SPEAKER_01:No. I mean, especially a a a father to a uh a child with deformities of that nature, right, and that severity. I mean, nowadays, if we knew that a child was going to be catastrophically deformed like that, they'd probably in you in utero destroy it. Right. Which parents the object. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But this is 1977, right? And those kind of ideas just didn't they probably would have likened it to eugenics destroying a a child like that. Yeah. You know. You have to realize that when this film came out, it was 1977. Vietnam had only been over for about four years. You know, there was a lot of psychic trauma in America, you know. And I think that per that that baby encompasses everything that was wrong with this country. I mean, and there in real life, there was children being born with massive deformities from fathers that were coming back from Vietnam. Right. Agent Orange was a thing. Yeah. It was a defoliant that they used in Vietnam. And many, many children were born, and you know, the 60s were were permanently dead. Yeah. The the whole era of the late 70s was just a time of monumental change in this country.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So after Henry uh he can't get back to sleep, you know. He's he's he's trying to sleep. Um could you? That screaming thing. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It's mewling, just it almost drove me crazy the first time I saw it. I was like, I couldn't imagine that.
SPEAKER_00:I think that was by design.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But this is the first time uh as Henry's having these sort of sleepless nights, is the first time that we see the uh fat face girl, the chipmunk girl. The lady in the radiator. The lady in the radiator, yes. Uh and she does her fun little dance and uh stomps on the these worms that are falling from the sky. No one knows where they're coming from.
SPEAKER_01:I think that whole scene is a it's uh a representation of emasculation. I think Henry sees her as some sort of beacon of light, and she's like she's there to tell him nah. She's literally it it looks like she's busting his balls, stomping on these spermies. Because that's what they are, they're spermies. I don't care what anybody says. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's gleefully smashing them, and she does this weird little grin, and then she walks over a little bit, and then she sees another one, and at first she's dodging them. Yeah, she's dodging, and she's like looking and she's smiling, she sees one, she's like, Oh, not gonna get me. Right. And then there's a close-up of her face, and she just she has this one look where it's like almost triumphant, and then she and you instantly know she just stomped on one, and then she just gleefully she's stomping on every single one of them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's an interesting tell you. I I I can definitely see that another one is you know, as I watched it again, I got the feeling that she represents like some sort of salvation, and in crushing these little spermies, um she's eradicating the problem. She's getting rid of the the essentially the babies, yeah. Uh which which would free him to go back to his post-father or pre-father life of freedom. Whatever that was, whatever that was, which didn't look great. Yeah. But at least he could get a good night's sleep, I guess. So next we see uh Mary's back. Um mysteriously. Uh she just kind of rubbing her eye. Oh my god, she is the worst person to sleep next to, I think, I I've ever seen. She she looks like she's sleeping in a straitjacket. You see her arms, and and under the blankets, they don't seem to be free, they seem to be tied up. And then like it's a uterus. Oh, yeah, interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it could be that's what I always thought, especially like more nowadays. When because I didn't understand that kind of shit back in the day when I I saw this movie when I was 15 first time. Yeah. So, but nowadays, when you can analyze it with more of an adult eye, I mean, it shows her legs opening and closing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I noticed that when he when he discovers the worms, again, the little spermies that we saw earlier.
SPEAKER_01:And he starts instantly, like with disgust, throwing them against the wall.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah. Freud would have loved this movie. Oh, there's definitely, yeah. Freud and Young both. I think Freud would have liked a lot of Lynch's films. Uh Blue Velvet, he probably would have had a heyday with. Oh, I mean, well, he's like, this is exactly what I've been saying.
SPEAKER_01:Frank's right there. Frank's Oedipus complexion right there.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes, in full display. Oh, in all its madness and glory. Uh so not only uh does Henry have to deal with the baby and the incessant crying, but now we've got Mary and her teeth grinding and her constant thrashing, uh, just making him miserable. Um thing I thought of, do you think that this really is Mary? Do you think that she actually came back or is this a projection? There he could be dreaming, yeah, for all we know. Yeah. Because it's strange that there was no reintroduction of her. It's just I'm leaving, I'm gone. And now she's right back like she had never left. Uh, but we're getting more of the surreal visuals with the worms and stuff like that. So it suggests that maybe it's not real.
SPEAKER_01:He could be totally descending into madness for all we know. Yeah. I mean, he always seemed a little mad, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00:We don't know. It's up for you to decide.
SPEAKER_01:Maybe all of this is all a figment of Henry's imagination, and he's he doesn't have the or he could be dead, or he is in hell for what he did or is going to do. Yeah, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so the mystery girl appears. She says that she locked herself out. And um if she can stay over at his place. Would never happen. Yeah, no, exactly. This seems like another suggestion that this is all she's tripping. Yeah, yes. I don't even think she's real. I don't uh yeah, I don't the more I the more I I watch those scenes, the more I think you're right because I mean it it seems to spiral out of control and get more surreal the more she's in it. You know, especially as they they sort of descend into the bed and and this very I think it's a very cool shot where they're sort of weighted in in liquid, and then they kind of she kind of brings him down underneath, and then it all that's left is just that little tuft of hair.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like she's drowning him.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Take or taking him under. Yeah, bringing him under both. Yeah, right. So in heaven, everything is fine. Best uh earworm of all time.
SPEAKER_01:Probably one of the most covered songs, apparently. Yeah, I didn't know. It's been covered by about 15 different bands.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. And probably hundreds more that we don't even know of. Yeah. You know, yeah. But uh the looking into it, because you know, I wanted to see how this song was made and the chord progressions and stuff like that, very bizarre. Uh very bizarre in the way that it's uh structured tonally. It gives you this feeling of both uh uplift and also uh a sense of unease and has kind of like a mocking quality about it. I uh when I when I saw for the first time, I didn't feel like everything was fine when I heard this song. I never did. I felt like everything is definitely not good, and uh and I I feel like the the song is sort of there to give you that sort of lynchian sort of unease where you know uh it's it's just uh another illustration of Henry's headspace, you know, and kind of what he's going through. So yeah. In heaven. If you guys haven't heard it, please go listen to it and uh go listen to the other versions of the listen to the Bauhaus version first, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:After the original. There you go. That's the best cover of it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Alright, so um The Girl in the Radiator does her little song.
SPEAKER_01:She she sings this song, and when you listen to the lyrics to this song, there's a part at the end where the lyrics subtly shift. Yeah. And you know, you realize that, you know, this person singing this song got everything taken from them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And that's one of the reasons why it's such a disturbing song. And the fact that, you know, they're talking about if they as if they're already dead because they're in heaven. Right. If you believe in that sort of thing. So it's like it's like where you're at right now ain't it's not fine where Henry's at. Exactly. And it never was, and it probably never will be. Alright, so after after the the scene where Henry loses his head.
SPEAKER_00:Quite literally and figuratively. Yes. He uh it it it seems to travel through space and time and lands on the street where a small boy picks it up and runs away with it. Um sorry for that. Somebody was a small dick just drove by. Um okay, so then what happens? The the kid takes it to this factory, apparently, pencil factory. Of course, as one does when you find a when I find a severed head, I was like, damn, I'm gonna get fucking money for this. Yeah, dude, this is worth a lot of dough, man. Apparently it was because dude was really happy to get it. Yeah, I mean that that the the man paid that kid. He he he pulled out a watt of cash. Fucking hey, man. He's probably the only person in this town with any money. Which is probably why the town looks the way it does. Yeah. Uh so anyway, I mean uh He's running a pencil monopoly. So this is where the the the title of the film, everything is supposed to come together. Eraserhead. Oh, I thought it was because of his hair. I I kind of see the the the idea of the pencil being creation and an erasure, straight out of existence.
SPEAKER_01:I think Henry is in the throes of a nervous breakdown, losing his mind, and the kid can sense it.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, because there are these quiet pauses in this in this scene where you just see the baby sort of quiet over over in his little corner, which is also disconcerting because the baby's done nothing but make noise. So the fact that it's quiet is is very like he's sizing his dad up. Yeah, you see the kind of the baby. There's I think there's close-ups of the eye of the baby kind of looking, and you you get this feeling that they're connected, almost like on a psychic level, like the baby knows something's up, and so he starts doing this mocking baby laugh. Um that seems to exacerbate Henry's feelings of loneliness and long like uh isolation, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Then the lights go out again. And in this, in that in that instance, you look at Henry's face and you can see true terror. He looks horrified of what's about to happen. Like he knows he's he knows what he's gonna do. Yeah. Every single father since the beginning of time has had an instance where they wanted to beat the shit out of their children. I don't care what anybody says, I don't care. You know, you're you could be the greatest dad in the world. Subconsciously, there has been a time when you wanted to throttle the fuck out of your children. Yeah. Your son, your daughter, whatever. It's instinctive. They're gonna get you to that point. I'm not condoning it. Yeah, I'm not condoning violence against your children, but it has happened.
SPEAKER_00:I think every parent has experienced that level of frustration with their kids. Oh, most definitely woman. Um it doesn't get better as you get older. No, no, but I think that's also I mean, in the natural scheme of things, that's that's the order that we're given is the adolescent is supposed to be pushing the boundaries, and the adult is supposed to be reinforcing them so that it's understood what the rules are. Um the frustration comes, especially in that early stage, I think, especially with Henry. The frustration is that I don't think he was ever planning or asking for this role.
SPEAKER_01:No, but not a not a lot of some some fathers don't. Yeah, true, you know, true. So and some rise to the occasion and others want to run away from it. Yeah, and Henry he made a go of it, he stood up like a man and done what he thought he should do, but you know, the madness took hold, yeah, and his his lust and desire for freedom. Wait, lust and desire, they're the same thing. Yeah, I just use two different words of the same fucking thing.
SPEAKER_00:He just reinforced the same idea. It's fine.
SPEAKER_01:He's doing what his you know, what nature wants him to do. He wants to be free. Yeah. And unfortunately, the only way he can be free is to take that motherfucker out. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, and I think that she does everything, uh everything in this movie is so oppressive by design to point us in that direction where he feels like he has no way out. I mean, he looks out his window, there's a a fucking brick wall, you know. He's trying to find freedom or or fulfill some sort of desire or need by uh looking to his neighbor.
SPEAKER_01:And that's and it seems like every external stimuli in this film is either violent or gross and deformed. Yeah, I mean, he can't look outside his window and not see somebody get the shit kicked out of him.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Which you know, that that's a disturbing scene because he's so nonchalant about it. You wouldn't expect him to be able to commit any act of violence. He's so timid looking. Yeah. And you know, he he reminds me of a coward. Yeah. Like if you've if you flinched at him wrong, he'd probably start crying.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and and and that's that's interesting because in this scene that we're about to get to, he he seems like he can't help himself, like like he doesn't see any other way out. But it as he starts to carry out this horrible act, he turns away. He does he can't stand to see the result of what he's done to to the baby.
SPEAKER_01:And that manifests itself itself as his child's head is massive, it's like floating in the room, coming at him, and and you know, the the lights keep flickering off and on, and it's moving back and forth, and that that in and of itself is kind of terrifying, but uh the weight the of what he's done is it you know, it's like he he had a moment of uh of clarity.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he goes over to the drawer and he pulls out the scissors, and the baby seems to kind of know that something's up, you know, it's staring him, it's laughing at him, yeah. Well it was, and then it kind of goes quiet. And this is where when he starts to open up the wrapping that the baby is encased in, he does it in such a way where it's almost like he's in a trance. It's like he's dissecting himself, right? Which kind of he is, yes. And the wrapping of that the baby is in, the bandages, to me almost represent this sort of the thing that's unseen. Like like this is the first time he's confronting the baby head on.
SPEAKER_01:I think Henry is just uh in the the first instance in his life he has to adult. Yeah. And he's failing. No, not necessarily failing. He's just he is having a very, very stark instant of introspection. He's looking inside himself and he hates what he sees.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. He's looking at the you know the the some parts of what he is. He's a failure, a moral failure, a murderer now. Right. Yeah, you know, in infanticide.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and the the interesting thing uh is when he sees what he's done and he sees how much pain the the baby's in, his instinct is to stab it. Uh, and then this weird like ooze comes out. Yeah. And that's when he's in total panic mode because then he just sort of turns away. He can't bother himself to look at it because at what he's done because of the shame and the guilt and all that stuff that's probably associated with it.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and and not only the fact that you know he's gonna have to answer for his crimes. Yeah, well, Willie, I don't we don't even know if this place has police.
SPEAKER_00:Fuck. I'm sure they have very brutal police. Uh yeah. This goes on. This this is an intentionally long scene that we torturously. Yes, we get to see this baby's sort of suffering in this way, and how disturbing it is that that you know Henry's doing this. After we're after the baby gets stabbed, and uh Henry looks away. This it almost looks like I almost say cream corn, but it's almost like some sort of cornmeal, oatmeal. Yeah, it oh, is it that's what it was. Is it okay? Yeah, fills up, uh spills over the baby, and and and it dies, and that's sort of the finale of of this little creature suffering.
SPEAKER_01:It's like it's drowning in its own oppression, right? Right Henry's mental oppression, he he oppressed himself. He impressed himself by you know just not being an adult and realizing you know the the severity of what's happened with his child. It's like you, you know, out of wedlock you had this thing, and now you gotta deal with it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But then we get we cut to uh the radiator girl and Henry uh embracing at the end, and and it's this sort of and that's about as good of a happy ending as you're gonna get.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's pretty much I think I think in in in my opinion, I think Henry killed himself. I would agree. And she's pretty much the only beacon of light in the whole film, yeah, literally and figuratively. Yeah, because every time you see her, it's bright and shiny, and you know, she's dressed all in white. She has white, like, but she has the worst acne in the world. She's got these huge bulbous growths on her face that look like look like giant zits, yeah, for lack of a better word. Yeah. But um, yeah, and the fact that the the film ends with just this massive bright light, you know. But to go to the back to the beginning of the film, it also it begins with a massive bright light. There's like a tunnel that's superimposed, and it right before we see the first shot of Henry on the street, it's this massive white light, and it's almost like blinding you. Right. So that goes back to the idea of creation and destruction. Right. Which I think is you know a core tenant of this film.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, yeah, definitely. Um I thought I always thought it was interesting when when they introduce Henry for the first time, that that white fade in to Henry's face. Always thought it was interesting that he's looking at the camera before he walks away from the camera. And it's it's such an odd way to introduce a character, and it's almost like it's like what the fuck's he staring at? It's almost like he's he's looking at us. Yeah. Like it's it's very meta feeling. It feels almost like like he's self-aware that he's in a movie. Breaking the fourth wall. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I always thought that was very, very odd.
SPEAKER_01:That might have been unintentional because you know, none of these people were real actors. Yeah. Yeah. You know, they were, you know. I mean, it could have been a take where where it's just and lynch, and then Lynch was like, fuck it, I'll just leave it in. Yeah, that was Peach King. That was great. I like that, Jack. We'll keep it. That's great. Oh, yeah, they're gonna love that. That's probably the best Lynch impersonation I can do.
SPEAKER_00:I love making it at the camera and turn away. That's great. Coffee. All right, so that's that's pretty much the end of the movie. There's really nothing after that. It it fades to black, and I don't know, is there a title card that says a razor head at the end, or is it just David Lynch? Just David Lynch. That's right. And starring Jack Nance and all the Charlotte Stewart. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Released in 1977, directed by David Lynch, of course, and starred Jack Nance, Charlotte Stewart, Judith Anna Roberts, who plays the lady across the hall, Gene Bates, and Laurel Near as the Lady in the Radiator. And she also sang the song. She actually sang the song. Actually, no, I found out that I was incorrect. Uh somebody else sang it. Who knows who? No, I didn't find out. We should look that up somewhere. You, if you know, let us know. Yep. In the comments below. Yeah. Also, leave in the comments if you have any ideas for movies for us to cover. We have a massive list written down, but we're always open to this. Is our first episode, but we're going to do many, many more. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:This has been another episode of The Dark Territory. I'm Sean. I'm Brandon. We'll see you next week. Watch more movies. Yes. Watch more movies.