The Dark Territory
A deep dive into unsettling, obscure, and often overlooked works in film, literature, and music. From body horror to haunted Americana, industrial noise to dystopian novels — it's about exploring the media that lingers in the shadows.
The Dark Territory
Why Skinny Puppy Doesn't Bite
A band that made horror feel like truth instead of a costume deserves a deep dive, and Skinny Puppy earned theirs by turning noise, samples, and performance art into a living organism. We go back to the spark between cEvin Key and Nivek Ogre, tracing how tape culture, Throbbing Gristle’s factory ethos, and cut-up language fused into a sound that felt cold, cinematic, and strangely human. From Bites and Cleanse Fold and Manipulate to the guitar-forward punch of Rabies, we map the gateway albums, the misfires, and the revelations that convert casual listeners into lifers.
What kept pulling us back wasn’t just the music, but the way it was delivered. Onstage, Ogre’s prosthetics, stilts, and brutal imagery made the shows feel more like installations—provocative, often confrontational, always intentional. We break down how sampling became a lead instrument, how Ogre sculpted voice into texture, and why Skinny Puppy’s lyrics read like transmissions you decode rather than sing along to. There’s room for side roads too: Download’s rhythmic mutations, Front Line Assembly’s cinematic sweep, and the unmistakable imprint Dwayne Goettel left on programming and tone.
The story has jagged edges—addiction, The Process, creative rifts—but also a clear ethic: experiment without apology, and let the work carry the risk. We also revisit the infamous Guantanamo controversy, why the $666,000 claim mattered, and how the band’s activism sharpened their art. If you’ve ever argued over whether Assimilate, Tin Omen, or Deep Down Trauma Hounds defines them, you’re in the right place. Hit play, then tell us your Skinny Puppy gateway track, and subscribe to catch our upcoming dive into The Wicker Man. Your listens, reviews, and shares keep this dark machine humming.
We're the George R. R. Martin of Podcast.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we're never gonna finish this shit.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. I thought we already were. Well, we are, but you know, enough of the B-roll.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Lots of B-roll.
SPEAKER_00:Alright. But I'm gonna ask you one thing. Get your sighs out of the way now, because last time you were sighing all the way. You were, and I was gonna take it out.
SPEAKER_03:What are you talking about?
SPEAKER_00:You were like.
SPEAKER_03:It's not like I'm doing it on purpose. I know I was trying to fucking breathe.
SPEAKER_00:Just for the intro. In fact, I can I can I can take you off.
SPEAKER_03:I'm getting my fucking voice ready.
SPEAKER_00:Alright. Okay. It's like honey. It's like honey. Alright. Ready? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I've been ready.
SPEAKER_00:Alright. Welcome to the Dark Territory Podcast. I'm gonna do that again.
SPEAKER_03:Ask me if I'm fucking ready.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome to the Dark Territory Podcast. I'm Sean.
SPEAKER_03:I'm Brandon.
SPEAKER_00:Each week we dive into the music, films, and books that feel our passion for everything dark, mysterious, and strange. Today we're gonna discuss the one, the only skinny puppy. This is a band I think that we can all agree is one of the most influential industrial bands.
SPEAKER_03:Or electronic music in general.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:They've influenced so many bands.
SPEAKER_00:I think this is also worth noting. This is our first music episode. So it's the first time we're actually talking about a band, not a not a film.
SPEAKER_03:If we do keep doing the music episodes, we're gonna just concentrate on one band at a time.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. And as always, if you guys have any suggestions, leave it in the comments. Yeah. And we will take you up on that. Let's do a little intro about Skinny Puppy, just kind of their origin story. Uh the Skinny Puppy began as an experimental project. That was by Kevin Key, also known as Kevin Crompton.
SPEAKER_03:He's the main, like the main founding member of Skinny Puppy, right? Yeah, yeah. His conception, his idea.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And he was he was in a band called uh Images in Vogue. So he was he was a drummer. It's kind of like with uh Trent Reznor. He was also in a pop band before he became you know known for what he does.
SPEAKER_03:Listen to Ministries for his album, you know. Yeah, for real, dude. Are you British? I don't I don't remember you being British. That's a vast departure from what you know you hear mind is a terrible thing to taste. Oh, yeah, and it was cool because that was kind of a troll on Al Jorgensen's part. Yeah, he made that album on purpose so he'll to sound like that, so he could get a record deal.
SPEAKER_00:That's hilarious. Yeah, that's wild.
SPEAKER_03:It's like a total switch, and you're just like, Yeah, who is this guy? Yeah, the fuck. And then when you hear that story, you're like, oh, brilliant. Yeah, like chef's kiss, man.
SPEAKER_00:Well, especially when you kind of get to know who this guy is a little bit more. You could totally see that. He's uh he's a character. Um, and he will come into play into uh later in this episode about Skinny Puppy. So Kevin Key, you know, he was in Images in Vogue, he was doing the drums, and he wanted to do something a little bit more darker and experimental, and um that's when he invited uh Navek Ogre, also Kevin Ogilvy, to collaborate on vocals. Good old ogre. Oh yeah, there's no one like him, man. Uh no one that looks like him or sounds like him, or acts like him on stage. Yeah, yeah. Some a lot of his performances.
SPEAKER_03:Was he a contortionist too? Did he do like contortion stuff?
SPEAKER_00:I don't I don't know if it's ever been.
SPEAKER_03:Because when I the the when I saw them live, it seemed he had like these these stilt things, yeah, and he was on it. I was like, how can he fucking move like that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, dude.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I I always thought he was into contortion too.
SPEAKER_00:He definitely added a lot to their live performance.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah, you know, and I don't know if that was a a conscious decision on his part or if he was just exercising a lot of de demons, you know. Maybe a little bit of both.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Because he was he was responsible for all the visual conception of their live shows. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:He was big into horror, you know, psychological trauma, and yeah, you know, all that shit.
SPEAKER_03:His parents gave him a hard time when he was a kid for being into horror and stuff. So he, I guess he had a pretty rotten home life when it came to that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So if if you have a kid that's into that shit, don't give him a hard time. No, man. You should encourage him.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, embrace it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's good to exercise your demons, and what better way than to like watch a good horror movie? Yeah, don't give them a hard time. I think parents that try to tamper down the darker curiosities that kids have. Oh, yeah. They're they're doing themselves a disservice and their kids a disservice.
SPEAKER_03:You're just gonna make them want to be into it more.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. And you're probably gonna make them more extreme.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And this talking about movies and stuff, Skinny Puppy is a very visual, yeah. And you know, they're really into movies, they sample a lot of different horror films in different films. Yep, a lot of slasher films. Yeah, us going back and forth about the movies and stuff, it's it's all related.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. So, yeah, anyway, Key and Ogre, they recorded their first cassette demo in North uh Vancouver. Uh yeah, a lot of their influences, of course, Throbbing Gristle, Cabaret Voltire, uh Portion Control, and then a lot of the early industrial tape kind of culture in general just kind of influenced their sound.
SPEAKER_03:Good stuff, hell yeah. Especially TG.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm. Yep.
SPEAKER_03:I love Throbbing Gristle.
SPEAKER_00:They're all over it, you know, like the influence list on a lot of other popular industrial bands. Oh yeah. And it's obvious why.
SPEAKER_03:Throbbing Gristle?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And psychic TV.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Hell yeah. So what was your what do you remember your first experience with uh Skinny Puppy?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I bought a I saw Two Dark Park at the tape store at South Home Hall. And um, I thought it was gonna be something different because like the monsters on it and shit, yeah, the logo. And the I I thought it was gonna be more metal when I bought it and I took it home. I was like, this kind of sucks. Actually, I didn't yeah, I'll admit it, I didn't like you weren't expecting it. Yeah, yeah, and uh gave it to my uh my homeboy because we were getting into the same music at the same time, and he he had heard Throbbing Gristle first, yeah, and he's like, Oh, this is fucking awesome. So I was like, Well, he'll like it, so I just hear you might like this. He's like, Cool, man, thanks. And then I saw him the next day, he's like, dude, that was so fucking awesome. Why didn't you want it? I was like, because it kind of sucks, yeah. And then, you know, I heard I heard uh I heard Rabies next, and that's that's when I started to like him. But I really didn't come into like my love of skinny puppy until I heard Cleanse Full Manipulate, yeah, because that album it that hit me at the right spot where you know it had like really danceable beats, and I was I was getting into a lot of like not dance music, but like the more EDM kind of stuff, yeah, yeah, some with a beat, yeah, kind of just trying to expand my horizons a little bit, and that's around the same time I heard Frontline Assembly too. So then I saw Skinny Puppy Live and that was cool. See that that's I gained a new appreciation for him after that because you know when you go see a band live and it's a really awesome experience. Changes everything. Oh, yeah. Then I I became a big fan of Skinny Puppy, and then I went, I I revisited Two Dark Park with a more open mind. I didn't listen to Two Dark Park for a long time. I didn't like it. Yeah, I mean Addiction's a cool song. I like addiction, yeah. And um, yeah, but then I I really sat down, uh, had some uh chemical enjoyment to kind of lube up the brand. Yeah, and I I you know so Quiet Night, I put Two Dark Park on with an open mind, and I listened to it back and forth like four or five times. I was like, okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Now I'm like, yeah, yeah. Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. It was just for that that second that I heard it the the first time, yeah. It was just too jarring and too noisy.
SPEAKER_00:And Ogre's voice is really off-putting when you first hear it. Oh, yeah. Because he the way he sings is not natural. You're just like, what the fuck is that?
SPEAKER_03:It's like what's this fucking guy's problem? You know, it's like, but now shit, they're one of my favorite bands. Yeah, man. Uh I I kind of tuned out after Last Rights though. Yeah. Because I got I started getting into like other stuff, like noise stuff. And but download was great. Yeah. Yeah, we can talk about Download. Yeah, Kevin Keyes for real. And Dwayne Gattel's other band, Rest in Peace.
SPEAKER_00:Rest in peace, yeah. He was a genius, man, when it came to the synths and beats were fucking awesome. Hell yeah. My first experience, I I honestly I don't remember exactly when I first heard Skinny Puppy, but I remember me and my friend Mike. We were we were driving, you know. Often we just have the radio on back in the day. You you'd just have the radio on your favorite radio station, and just kind of KGRG. Yeah, man. Is that where you heard it? I think it was, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Music from the fringe of society. Yeah. And and you know, you you just never know what's gonna come on.
SPEAKER_03:So many people heard their first I hate to say it, but alternative songs on music from the fringe of society.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Sometimes that's that's all it takes, is just that one one time to hear something, and then you're just like, What I want more of this. Music is cosmic, man. It's like the right place, the right time. Yeah, you know, yeah. So we uh we heard download for the first time. So did you hear download before Skinny Puppy? Yep. And it was uh it was Omni Omni Man that came on, and you just hear this weird growling and fucking weird chanting and shit. I'm like, what the fuck is this, man? Like we were like looking at each other's like like what's what's gonna happen?
SPEAKER_03:You know, my first download was Sidewinder. Sidewinders awesome.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sidewinder's good. I like it because it's more I mean it's definitely more on the experimental side, even more experimental than skinny puppy. But the beats, like, it's just so fucking wild. Like you you never know where it's gonna go. And that's why, you know, that's why I like their music. It's just it's it's unexpected, and and they're not afraid to take chances.
SPEAKER_03:Well, that the thing with that was it's like they were always taking chances because there was nobody else doing anything like that. Yeah. Except for their contemporaries, like or you know, the bands that came before them. But even TG, they didn't do sampling like Skinny Puppy did. Yeah, it's true. I think Skinny Puppy was one of the first bands to actually explore the idea of sampling and and not as just an intro to your song, but yeah, as an integral part of the song and manipulating that sample to even make it sound like it its own instrument. Oh, yeah, which was pretty wild.
SPEAKER_00:Ogre got really creative with his sound design techniques. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um almost like sound sculpting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, which is great. He got pretty pretty extreme in where where the content came from as well.
SPEAKER_03:Um I mean, and if you if you if you ever see uh video of skinny puppy, ogre was not just a singer, he was hands-on with the the equipment as well. He you know, he was using synths and everything else, so it's he's not just uh a front man. Yeah, yeah, he was he was an integral part in I don't think I don't think skinny puppy would have been half as popular without without ogre.
SPEAKER_00:No, yeah, I mean well and it's evident in the in the side projects.
SPEAKER_03:And when you when you put skinny puppy up against all the side projects that they did, that's kind of an unfair comparison.
SPEAKER_00:For sure.
SPEAKER_03:Because I mean it's skinny puppy, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, without and and we see evidence of that, you know, without all of them working together, the original band, it's just not the same. Yeah, you know, like the process.
SPEAKER_03:What was the reason for the original breakup? It was it because of Ogre's drug use?
SPEAKER_00:I think that was a part of it. Um I don't know the specifics. I'm sure I think there was probably some creative differences between Key's and Ogre. Because I I gave the process a chance and I was like, Well, and the process is is a messy, is a messy album because you know, Dwayne, uh his passing, Ogre and Key took a break and they were doing a lot of their side project stuff, and then they tried to come back together to stitch this thing together after the fact, yeah, you know, and it just it did not work. The glory of that once was. Yeah, it's just not kind of sucks. It's not a solid album. It's actually the album I think is the last one that I was into before I kind of diverged.
SPEAKER_03:Last Rights was one, but I gave it a chance, you know, because I knew that Dwayne Cattell had died, yeah. And I was sitting there and I was thinking it might be okay. Yeah, he might have gotten somebody else of his caliber to be a programmer, but nope.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's not the same.
SPEAKER_03:Um if you want to look at a band that has a uh a very strong work ethic, I would call I would say skinny puppy.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, for sure. Even amongst all the chaos and disorder, oh yeah, they were able to crank out albums year after year after year.
SPEAKER_03:Um I'm sure when it when it came to time to record, Ogre was 100% right there.
SPEAKER_00:It's interesting that how he's tackling his trauma by exploring other traumas. Yeah, you know, like he he he actually became a very big advocate for like animal rights and stuff like that, and and became kind of more politically driven.
SPEAKER_03:Uh Vivisec, that whole that song is about Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Which it's it's a horrible practice. You should not you should not work on a living thing, yeah, like that's just fucked up.
SPEAKER_03:Rabbi's you know, deep down trauma hounds.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I think you can you can interpret Ogre's lyrics really any way you want. It's like a choose your own adventure, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's that's why I like this topic for this podcast because it's a perfect intersection of, you know, music and horror combining those two. I I don't think I'd seen a band at that point that was doing that, that was actually doing live like performance art uh that that drew off of a lot of like kind of horror themes and stuff like that while also making this incredible music.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think they were probably the first and one of the last.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I would agree with that.
SPEAKER_03:Because when you when you say the term performance art, some people they get a uh Oh it's not like a it's not like a it's not pretentious.
SPEAKER_00:Like I think what he was doing was truly from his from his heart. Yeah, you know, he wasn't trying to be mysterious or strange just for the sake of it.
SPEAKER_03:Some people do, yeah. And that's when you can you can tell that they're a pretentious fuckhead.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. You can tell right away.
SPEAKER_03:Um the live experience for music when you see a band like Skinny Puppy, it really affects you, especially if you've never seen anything like that before. Oh there I think they sh they they shined really, but they they didn't play a lot live, which is kind of weird.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I wonder if a lot of that was I mean, maybe it was some of the stuff happening behind the scenes, like the the the you know Ogre didn't have a problem playing with ministry though. No, that was awesome. Yeah, there's some great interviews that came out of that tour too, uh, of Ogre looking like he doesn't even know where he is, and then Al Jergens is just they were both probably spun the fuck out. Yeah, yeah. Al Jergensen, man. Um he he became kind of uh integral part in skinny puppy sound for a minute when he I think he co-produced uh didn't he work on Last Rights? I don't know if it was Last Rights, but he he co yeah shit. Now I need to look that up. Oh, rabies, that's what that's right. He co-produced rabies. You can hear it and and the guitar came became more of a you know in your uh in your face uh instrument in that kind of album.
SPEAKER_03:They straight rip off a Slayer clip in that album.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um I like that sound, and actually that's that's one of the albums that I still gravitate towards just because I like the combination of live guitar, you know, distorted guitar and industrial music, like the the beats and rhythms behind it. Oh yeah. Um but a lot of people, I guess, you know, were kind of like, oh, this isn't the skinny puppy that I like.
SPEAKER_03:Well, yeah, and that's that's another point because I don't think any other band in that s in that era fostered as much loyalty fan-wise as Skinny Puppy did.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. I think it if you were into it, you were deep into it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Uh I wore uh I wore a cleanseful manipulate shirt every day for like weeks on end.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, they had some great shirts. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:The last rights, the last rights uh painting was even cool. I like the fact that they used paintings on their album covers for a lot of it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And then you got like Dig It, which was cool. Yeah, yeah. Dig It was cool because it had like that woodcut from Gustave Duray.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Oh, I didn't know that. That's it. I think that was Dig It.
SPEAKER_03:Or what the fuck, which one was it? It was one of the like classics.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:It could have been uh Mine the Perpetual Intercourse. No, that's the one that had like the naked chick on it, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh, that's a cool album cover. Hell yeah, man.
SPEAKER_03:Um hot chicks like skinny puppy too. That's true.
SPEAKER_00:That's true.
SPEAKER_03:Really put together girls fashion and girls and shit.
SPEAKER_00:Girls like, yeah, there's that. I think girls also like horror, and and anything that has a like a horror vibe to it, they get into it, man. I've I've known I've met a lot of girls that were you're right, into skinny puppy, like to watch horror movies.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think I I met more females that liked skinny puppy as opposed. I mean, I well a lot of dudes that liked him, but I remember like when I saw him live, yeah. I was like, damn, there's a lot of chicks here.
SPEAKER_00:You if you look at like a lot of the footage fucking meat market, bro. Yeah, yeah. If you you're right. If you look at like a lot of the live footage, oh yeah, you'll see girls googling at Ogre. They're like, oh, he's so mysterious. Yeah, what is he doing?
SPEAKER_02:I can fix him. It's like, no, you can't.
SPEAKER_00:You know, he's broken. You can't fix him, girl. You don't want him.
SPEAKER_02:Shit.
SPEAKER_00:That's the that's the lesson you should learn if hero.
SPEAKER_03:Get with this zero.
SPEAKER_00:For real.
SPEAKER_03:I bet you you'd do some awesome black metal.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:If he opened himself up to like that'd be wild. I bet it would. It would be like that'd be crazy.
SPEAKER_00:It'd be like it would go from being like, like kind of like like okay, here's a structured song to just fucking chaos.
SPEAKER_03:I I would probably liken it. I mean, I've talked about him before, but uh Jeff Whitehead from Leviathan. I bet you it would sound something like that, but way more polished.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe. I would like to think that Ogre would take it into a more mathy territory because they're they're if you listen to Skinny Puppy, their fucking rhythms are all over the place. But there's no rhyme or reason to it. So it's not like they're trying to be mathy, it's just they like to be fucking weird and random. Yeah. So who knows, man? I don't know what a metals fucking version would be. I want to hear it though. Let's go through some of the essential albums, huh? Yeah. Uh we got Bites, 1985. It kind of introduces the early sound. You know, they got the cold sense, distorted vocals, primitive sampling. Uh, that one's got assimilate, which is a great track.
SPEAKER_03:And perpetual intercourse. Isn't Diggett on that one too?
SPEAKER_00:Diggit is, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Diggit's a shit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I love Diggett. Diggit!
SPEAKER_03:Diggit, digg it.
SPEAKER_00:Actually, my first album that I ever bought was Inquisition. That one's good too.
SPEAKER_02:Fuck all their stuff is good, man. Back and forth.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. Yeah. I I think uh like rabies is still probably my favorite.
SPEAKER_03:Really?
SPEAKER_00:I I mean, yeah, I just I just like the sound of it.
SPEAKER_03:Um but it's I think if you if you if you quizzed every skinny puppy fan, they probably say Two Dark Park is like their least favorite album. I don't know why. I don't that album just doesn't get love, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Maybe that's when I need to revisit. Me and my friend Mike, shout out to Mike. Uh we were we were, you know, at the record store just randomly looking for records, and that's when we came across the Greater Wrong of the Right, which is a total surprise because we didn't think that this band was ever gonna release another album. And you know, some people might disagree that that was wasn't a good skinny puppy album, but I think it it melded a lot of their previous styles in a way that was I mean, admittedly more accessible, but I still think it's got some good tracks on there.
SPEAKER_03:So you ever get into all the like the 12-inch remixes that a bunch of bands did?
SPEAKER_00:I was a I was a huge fan of remix albums.
SPEAKER_03:That was yeah, that was uh that was a grail in and of itself trying to find all those how job did a bunch of remixes of skinny puppy stuff. That was great.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, I love remix albums, um, skinny puppies, especially.
SPEAKER_03:Didn't FLA do a few remixes for Skinny Puppy? Yeah, yeah, yep, yep. Bill Lee was in, yeah, he was in Skinny Puppy, so it kind of checks out.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, flaw, man. That's another one we need to do. Uh frontline assembly.
SPEAKER_03:I love I like frontline assembly more than Skinny Puppy. To me, they always sounded a little bit more cinematic.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yep.
SPEAKER_03:You know, I love it. Like it would be great on a soundtrack.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I used to play video games, especially like implode, yeah. Implode. Yep. Millennium was another one I listened to quite a bit.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, even like some of the the newer frontline.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, they still put out some good music. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um they got into more of the the the EDM stuff, yeah. The ELM.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I like I I agree. They're the cinematic sound uh is always something that I I've liked about their music. Oh, yeah. That a lot of industrial bands kind of touch on but never really fully embrace.
SPEAKER_03:Um uh My Life with the Thrill Kill Cult. That's another one I thought of. Yeah. There's a lot of a lot of bands. After the flesh. Yeah. That's a great track. Yep. But Frontline Assembly and Skinny Puppy to me, they're the they're the classics. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They're the best.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. And uh yeah, I think Skinny Puppy really tickled that kind of experimental and the more raw sound that I like and appreciate about industrial music.
SPEAKER_03:Their influences, Legion, too. Oh, yeah. I think a lot of bands, even a lot of metal bands that incorporate more electronic sound into their music, would probably say Skinny Puppy is one of their uh influences.
SPEAKER_00:I never actually got to see them live.
SPEAKER_03:I saw them at the Paramount.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That was a wild show.
SPEAKER_00:How did it sound?
SPEAKER_03:You know what? It's crazy because some bands, well, most bands, when they play live, it sounds different. Yeah, Skinny Puppy sounded exactly the same live as they did uh on the recording? On yeah, in studio. Wow. I've only seen one other band that sounded like that, and that was Flipper. Okay. I saw them at the OK Hotel like years ago.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, it's a great venue. Yeah. Rest in peace. Yeah, now it's an apartment complex.
SPEAKER_03:Gentrify crap. Fuck all that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um yeah, that was a great show.
SPEAKER_00:Um who did they was it just then? Did they have an opener? I can't remember who they it was so long ago. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I can't even remember what tour it was for. I think it was it was either for Last Rights or the album right before Last Rights. I can't remember which.
SPEAKER_00:A lot of hot chicks there, though.
SPEAKER_03:Oh fuck yeah, dude. But great, great set list. They played all the classics. Nice. They played everything off of Two Dark Park. You know, they played uh they played Dig It, they played uh uh Deep Down Trauma Hounds. I think Deep Down Trauma Hounds is like it's like Motorhead has Overkill. Yeah. I think they've played Deep Down, Deep Down Trauma Hounds every time. I think that's probably one of their most requested songs live. Probably, which is cool because it's a cool song, it's one of my favorite songs. Yeah. Do you have an absolute favorite skinny puppy song?
SPEAKER_00:I don't think I do, honestly. Really? Yeah, they're one of those bands. No, I I mean I could say Warlock. Um about Tin Omen.
SPEAKER_03:You like Tin Omen?
SPEAKER_00:Sure.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, fucking Tin Omen's.
SPEAKER_00:But I could also say I like Protest, you know? Really? And and people are like, well, that's I just uh I don't know. Every song from them hits differently for me. It's not like uh Nine Inch Nails where I can name a bunch of shit.
SPEAKER_03:Um they they just have such a see to me fucking uh uh first aid.
SPEAKER_00:First aid?
SPEAKER_03:First aid's a shit, dude. Okay and addiction. And well, everything off off of Cleanseful Manipulate, yeah. But or uh the choke. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Brap Brap's cool yeah, Brap's cool. That's one thing I like about it.
SPEAKER_03:Tin Omen though, dude. That song rips.
SPEAKER_00:Who who do you think like actually names the songs? Do you think it's Ogre?
SPEAKER_03:Ogre.
SPEAKER_00:And because he loves to fuck with the human language in really interesting ways. Yeah. Uh which I find fascinating.
SPEAKER_03:I read an old interview with him where he was talking about how um when he was like 13 or something, he found a uh an HP Lovecraft book in his like dad's like bookcase or something, and he took it down in the basement and started reading it, and he that's kind of that was his formative moment right there. Okay, interesting. Yeah, he always talked about how language is a it's uh you can you can twist it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Twist words into what you want.
SPEAKER_00:What is that technique that I think we were talking about earlier where the cut-up technique, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Uh William S. Burroughs and uh Throb and Gristle, they they worked on the cut up technique a lot with their music. Yep. But that's directly from William S. Burroughs.
SPEAKER_00:It's a very intuitive way of creating lyrics.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, he would take he would take books and he would basically cut words out of it and make up different stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I remember we used to have the the little fridge magnets with all the different words that you can see. Oh, yeah. We used to I used to do that. I used to do that shit all the time.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like playing uh cards against humanity, you know. Yeah, the same concept. Yep. Taking something totally off the cuff and making something different with something else unrelated. It's pretty punk rock if you think about it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I I know Tom York did that too with a lot of his lyrics. Yeah, you can definitely tell.
SPEAKER_03:And uh Boyd Rice from Nan, he used to do in the in the the formative years of non before he started doing the other stuff. Yeah, he was really into experimenting with the sound. And he was down with all the with Throbbin Gristle and all them too. Genesis Bioridge, he was a uh he was pretty influential with sound design and stuff like that. Yeah, throbbing gristle. You can't talk about industrial. I mean, they're the ones that coined the term industrial music. Yeah, man. And I I think they did that just because of the fact that they were, you know, they treated it like a factory and using the technology like tapes and stuff, and using all these tapes. I think that's why they called it industrial, not the sound itself. Yeah. I think the sound was secondary to their attitude towards it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I think that's why I've always been drawn to it. Like I've always kind of been someone interested in technology, but I'm more interested in what you can do with it creatively, and and I thought that industrial music really like a means to an end, not the means itself.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. I just always wanted to get like my point across in the loudest, fastest way possible. So I got something to say, and you're gonna fucking listen to it for about 20 or 30 seconds, and then you can, you know.
SPEAKER_00:That's why I think you know, punk music suits you.
SPEAKER_03:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know.
SPEAKER_03:It's like get in there and get the shit done so we can get out of here.
SPEAKER_00:Uh well, I I guess we could talk a little bit about kind of the the band and their some of the aspects of the live shows. You know, obviously they got a lot of horror, uh horror vibes, they got the fake blood, uh, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Didn't they show uh clips from Flower of Flesh and Blood?
SPEAKER_00:Uh was that Skinny Puppy? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a lot of stuff that they showed on screen.
SPEAKER_03:Uh that probably shouldn't have been shown.
SPEAKER_00:That people were kind of like, oh, I don't like this, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Did they show autopsy shit?
SPEAKER_00:There was some there was a lot of stuff. Because I mean they were big into like horror, but they also into like animal rights at some point, so they would they would go a little extreme, you know. Basically, it's it's like showing the worst shit you've ever seen to make a point. You know, they weren't trying to glorify it. Um, but yeah, they got shut down in the middle of some of their sets because they're like, nah, where was that overseas when they were showing that shit and the cops got involved? No, Cincinnati, man. That was one 1988. They got shut down.
SPEAKER_03:Um, it's a couple other ones where they were just I mean, if you've seen Flower, Flesh and Blood, it's not very convincing. I don't see why.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you mentioned that it didn't look like a snup video.
SPEAKER_03:That nine inch nails one is worse than that.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_03:And if you've seen that, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah, that shit was disturbing.
SPEAKER_00:Broken videos. Yeah, they're pretty. Fuck that shit. Happiness and slavery still burned in my brain.
SPEAKER_03:I watched it at a friend's house and I was like, where the fuck did you get this? I thought it was a real snuff movie.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's like, damn, girl.
SPEAKER_00:It's pretty wild. I had friends that would watch that shit uh relentlessly. I'm like, dude, there's something wrong with you.
SPEAKER_03:No shit. It's like watching a fucking cartel video. Like, why are you watching this, dude?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for real. Uh Guantanamo Bay. Where they were the they sued the government in in the 2000s because uh they were playing it uh one of their songs during uh their tortures in Guantanamo Bay.
SPEAKER_03:I would be so pissed. For real. I would be furious. I'd sue the government too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, how dare you? That's like the ultimate betrayal. You can't take you know your music and do shit like that.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. It's like make your own. You want to use it.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly, you know, or stick to the the other tactics that I'm playing. Yeah, for real.
SPEAKER_03:Or ASMR videos. That would fuck me up. They do that. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02:Right there. Stop it.
SPEAKER_03:No.
SPEAKER_02:Fucking terrible, dude.
SPEAKER_00:For real.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, listen to Finnish Girl ASMR. You'll fucking you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. Props to her.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I guess that's our first plug.
SPEAKER_03:We don't want you as a sponsor.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, just just you'll you'll know what we're talking about if you go and listen to it. I couldn't listen to it for more than two two seconds, I think. And I was like, oof.
SPEAKER_03:I lasted four seconds and then he was begging me to turn it off. It's like, yeah, I feel you, bro. For real. I'm sorry. Yeah. I felt so bad. I was like, oh my God.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, anyway, though, they they won$666,000 from this lawsuit.
SPEAKER_03:I wonder if the government even like caught on to that number.
SPEAKER_00:They were like you don't think they they they knew right away that they were kind of being you know that it was a joke. Yeah, you you never know. Especially back then.
SPEAKER_03:It's like, how dare you charge us six hundred and sixty-six thousand dollars?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that was before trolling became means. I want this much. I mean, that's a lot of money though. That's that's a lot of money.
SPEAKER_03:You know, I wonder if they still the government could have been like, fuck you, we're not giving you anything. Yeah, you kissed my ass.
SPEAKER_00:Do you think it was it was paid out in in payments, or do you think it was a lump sum?
SPEAKER_03:Probably a lump sum.
SPEAKER_00:Wow, that's wild.
SPEAKER_03:Probably. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, is it even true?
SPEAKER_00:They say it's true. I think it's been verified.
SPEAKER_03:Really? Yeah, I think so. That's I mean that would have been an epic urban legend. For real. Yeah. I saw some shit uh pop off at their show when I saw them live. There was a little fight broke out. Really? Yeah, it was between two chicks, though, like a cat fight. Oh, really?
SPEAKER_00:That's my boyfriend. For real.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, dude. Industrial chicks and goth chicks. Fucking drama, baby. Drama.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my god, look at what she's wearing. It's like shit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Fucking hey, any scenes got drama.
SPEAKER_03:Like Henrietta from South Park, the Goth Kids.
SPEAKER_00:I always like those kids.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I like I like Pete. Pete's funny.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Fucking hey, man. Alright, well, I don't know. You want to add anything else?
SPEAKER_03:Uh, I would check out Skinny Puppy if you one of the three people that's probably never listened to him. Check them out.
SPEAKER_00:And all the side projects, download, cheer garden, ogre. If you want to just, you know, if you're a completionist, it's good.
SPEAKER_03:We're gonna start expanding this project. And uh we have ideas brewing.
SPEAKER_00:We've got a lot of ideas that involve our audience. We want to tell your stories, yeah, and uh get you guys more involved. So uh we'll keep you posted on all that.
SPEAKER_03:Our next episode, it's gonna be our Thanksgiving episode.
SPEAKER_00:We're doing Wicker Man. We are, and we're not doing the Nicolas Cage version. This is the original. So any of you out there who were like, Oh, I love the Nicolas Cage version. Fuck you.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, fuck remakes. Fuck remakes. This is uh the fuck sequels. The Everest of folk horror films. Yeah, it's one of I think that's the template for folk horror. Yep. One of Christopher Lee's greatest films, besides Horror of Dracula.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's our next episode. That'll be our special Thanksgiving episode.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. So uh get the family together, yeah, gather around. Yeah, you know, get out your knives and your forks, yeah, and uh watching it.
SPEAKER_03:Talk about some human sacrifice.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, build a fire if you want.
SPEAKER_02:Literally. I believe in the life eternal. It's promised to us by our Lord Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_00:Uh one of the most used samples ever. For real.
SPEAKER_03:Fucking Marduk used that in their albums. It's like uh I don't know how many black metal bands have sampled that fucking.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, it's just right there.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, but we'll talk about that in the episode.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_03:We'll see you next week.
SPEAKER_00:Like and subscribe. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Bye. Fucking terrible.